Sometimes I feel the foolishness of my history

[outlier_lynn]

I've reminiscing today. Replaying old conversations and interactions on subjects about which I had strong opinions. Mostly it was pointless. More than pointless, foolish. Arguing with someone or some group who were more entrenched in the rightness of their opinion than I was in mine.

I can't count how many times I engaged with someone who was saying some variant of "Why do girls always go for jerks?" Or arguing with someone over the some cultural issue when they had their god on their side. I've argued myself blue over feminism, gay rights, abortion, love, sex, and the nature of relationships. Always convinced that my point of view was the right one.

Oh, I'd dress it up in pretty clothes and spout philosophical, sociological, and psychological theory to back up my position. And sometimes I would say "I'm not trying to change his mind as much as I'm refuting his position to keep him from poisoning the minds of others.

All foolish.

Everything cultural is a point of view. Some ways of thinking create more violence than other ways. Some ways create more poverty than others. Some ways create servitude while others create partnership. Some create a future that looks promising and optimistic. Some create a bleak future.

And none of it is better or worse than any other. We think one way is better and another worse because it upsets our individual belief system. I like the paths that tend toward peace and partnership, but that does not make my way the right way.

There is no right way. There is no wrong way.

When I forget that, I feel foolish.

Comments

[firecat]

Yeah. OTOH, some of those foolish conversations took place somewhere I was hanging around having foolish conversations too...and I'm glad I know you, so there was an up side from my POV. :)

[crazed-lynn.livejournal.com]

Definite upside. I also remember you being one of the prime movers into persuading me that my pronouncements weren't Truth from On High. :)

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

That "there is no right way and there is no wrong way" is, of course, also a cultural construct. That is, there are many cultures in which such a concept is quite literally unthinkable.

[crazed-lynn.livejournal.com]

Everything in language is a cultural construct. Human beings, regardless of their culture of origin, are born into a particular set of cultural truths. Some cultures insist their truths were hand delivered by a god. Some say their truths are hard-won common sense. Some even say that their culture is a political statement demonstrating their freedom from oppression. But they all have this in common: Their belief structure is real.

On top of the cultural truths one inherits, we slather on our personal truths. We see the world through our own special filters. Our personal filters may cause us to reject the cultural truths we are born into just to replace it with some other culture or, maybe, replace the beliefs with anti-beliefs.

We have a poor grasp on reality. The reality of the physical world. That underlying reality is not open to debate or interpretation. We debate it only in so much as we don't understand and accept it.

My particular filter tells me that the universe is not concerned with human morality. In fact, the universe is not concerned with humans at all. Consequently, all the posturing about right/wrong, good/bad, moral/immoral strikes me as absurd.

We can, and inevitably will, create a set of social rules guiding acceptable and unacceptable behavior. But we create it. It is neither right nor wrong. It's just created. Mostly out of self interest. Thou shalt not kill is just a shortened form of Thou shalt no kill ME. And one shouldn't steal because someone might steal my stuff.

We are so concerned that someone might kill us or steal from us that we create that god said it and he/she/it/they will punish you severely if you kill or steal.

It is not reality. It's just human created meaning. It isn't bad or wrong that we created it, either. That we have forgotten that we created it is a cosmic joke in my world.

The very idea that something is unthinkable (taboo) is a construct that gives all the power to the fearful at the expense of self-expression.

Then to be pedantic, nothing is "literally unthinkable." If a culture is presented with an "unthinkable" concept, the collective will think about it even if it is to instantly reject it.

I think I'll dismount my hobby horse now. :)

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

When I said "literally unthinkable," I was referring to a situation of "as it stands now"; if a culture is presented with an "unthinkable" concept, the culture is changed and is no longer the same culture.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the reality of the physical world." How do you know that such a thing exists (either "reality" or "the physical world")? Isn't believing in that a cultural construct?

[crazed-lynn.livejournal.com]

Ah. Interesting idea. A "new" thought in the cultural milieu alters the "thinkable" boundary, thus the old cultural system has been destroyed in favor of a new paradigm that includes the thought. I like it. :) It has been used to varying degrees in speculative fiction. "Job, A Comedy of Justice" by Heinlein comes to mind.

And the notion of something being real is also a subject of speculation in that book.

What do I mean? Good question. We have an observable universe with some pretty clear cut rules (at least at the level that applies to day to day living). Physical consequences will happen if we violate the mechanical view of our phsyical world. We can argue all we want about the nature of gravity, but it is hard to argue with the fact that we have the effects of it.

Humans have a rather poor relationship with that level of reality. We tend to lump it in with the rest of our "realities." And sometimes our cultural realities are just as dangerous as physcial-world realites.

In the game of what is real, we can always add new layers. My model has three main layers with a few sub categories. The three main layers are:
1. Physical reality. What you believe is not relevant to the outcome.
2. Cultural reality. What you believe influences your position within the culture. Outcomes are arrived at by mutual agreement. This mostly happens below the level of conscious creation. Cultural reality often occurs for us as just as real as physical reality.
3. Personal reality. This is our private set of beliefs about how the world is. It has the strongest influence on out lives and how well we fit or don't fit in our cultures. And it also seems real to us and exists below conscious awareness.

These three realities (in increasing order of importance) define us. They give us the constraints on our future.

Physical reality says we are not going to fly by flapping our arms. Cultural reality says "We are" and "We aren't...." Personal reality says "I am ..." and "I'm not ..."

It is certainly possible to increase the size of the model to have layers before physical reality. I just don't think it adds much to how I generate my life, so I don't speculate about it very much. I end up wrapping around the model when I think about what lies under the physical universe. And the question of origins has never appealed to me.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I don't think you answered my questions: How do you know that either "reality" or "the physical world" exists? Isn't believing in that a cultural construct? (Of course, you have no obligation to answer!)

Physical reality says we are not going to fly by flapping our arms.

I don't think physical reality "says" anything. I think a more accurate phrasing is, "I have never flown by flapping my arms. I do not know of any human who has flown that way. Scientists have come up with some rules of physics that account for the apparent fact that humans can't fly by flapping their arms. Thus far, as far as I know, no one has come up with a counter-example."

Also, if you still want to say that "physical reality says," I think your comparison would be better stated as Physical reality says "One can" and "One can't." Cultural reality says "We are" and "We aren't...." Personal reality says "I am ..." and "I'm not ..."

[crazed-lynn.livejournal.com]

touche.

You are correct. There is no way to actually know anything. We construct it all. I've stopped thinking there is something profound in "I think, therefore I am." Maybe I just think I think and I'm really a character in some beings worst nightmare. :)

But I like life to be workable. I like having predictable results, so I choose to have "physical reality" be a truth not subject to the whims of thought.

I like the change of "One can and one can't." But it doesn't quite express the nature of it as I assign it. It would be more like "Is possible; is not possible."

That still lacks something. There are always people who are more than happy to tell us what is and isn't possible based on their cultural or personal realities.

What makes it all workable for me is that I don't forget that I've created my universe and if I don't like it, I can recreate it. This model of life is working for me.