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Although I haven't heard this recently, I'm sure it's only because the crowds I run with use different phrasing. I have over my lifetime heard that civilized people don't do this or that, or that civilized people do this or that.
One general topic where this comes up is war. I vividly remember the war crimes news coming out of Vietnam. Torture,cruel punishments, and example-making behaviors committed by both sides. I remember talking with special forces people who had been in the field in Vietnam (and more recently in El Salvador) and thinking "I don't ever want to cross this guy in any way."
But "civilization" is just a point of view. One can't point to a set of attitudes and behaviors and claim with credibility that the set is civilized. It just depends on the subjective definition of the word.
Then there are the defenders of faith. For instance, cartoons of Islam's prophet are sparking murderous rage in the middle east. Embassies have been set afire. I'm sure both sides believe the other to have acted uncivilized.
I've also been looking at the far right and the far left activist activity lately. The only difference I can see is the beliefs held. The tactics seem to be exactly the same. For instance, there is a racist organization in San Diego''s north county who have been intimidating the Latino day workers as they gather at the "designated" location. The leftist activists staged a counter protest this morning carrying signs designed to intimidate the racists into leaving. Both sides are doing what they believe best for their community. It boils down to different points of view.
What seems to be lacking in the world of politics, faith, activism and a thousand other arenas is humor. Maybe a really good definition of "civilized" would be based on social awareness that nothing is significant. Maybe we are only civilized if we have a good belly laugh at ourselves and our beliefs every day. Human history suggests we can never be civilized if we use that definition.
Of course, this is just my point of view. :)
Love
One general topic where this comes up is war. I vividly remember the war crimes news coming out of Vietnam. Torture,cruel punishments, and example-making behaviors committed by both sides. I remember talking with special forces people who had been in the field in Vietnam (and more recently in El Salvador) and thinking "I don't ever want to cross this guy in any way."
But "civilization" is just a point of view. One can't point to a set of attitudes and behaviors and claim with credibility that the set is civilized. It just depends on the subjective definition of the word.
Then there are the defenders of faith. For instance, cartoons of Islam's prophet are sparking murderous rage in the middle east. Embassies have been set afire. I'm sure both sides believe the other to have acted uncivilized.
I've also been looking at the far right and the far left activist activity lately. The only difference I can see is the beliefs held. The tactics seem to be exactly the same. For instance, there is a racist organization in San Diego''s north county who have been intimidating the Latino day workers as they gather at the "designated" location. The leftist activists staged a counter protest this morning carrying signs designed to intimidate the racists into leaving. Both sides are doing what they believe best for their community. It boils down to different points of view.
What seems to be lacking in the world of politics, faith, activism and a thousand other arenas is humor. Maybe a really good definition of "civilized" would be based on social awareness that nothing is significant. Maybe we are only civilized if we have a good belly laugh at ourselves and our beliefs every day. Human history suggests we can never be civilized if we use that definition.
Of course, this is just my point of view. :)
Love